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Author Topic: C 4 guest bookers  (Read 11857 times)
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gordo
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« Reply #10 on: December 04, 2009, 04:50:34 PM »

I agree with Rotch. ANYONE can, with the right push, be made a credible champion... even if that "credibility" is questionable in a kayfabe sense.

The only real issue with having someone like Steen as champ is whether he can make it to the shows he's needed on. (Some would argue that the champ is needed on every show.) It's only when the champ doesn't appear for extended periods or misses events he's advertised for that things can go awry.

Even a "local" guy who lives down the block from the venue may miss shows. Living in the vicinity is no guarantee of anything. Maybe his shoot job shifts got changed at the last moment and he has to no-show the event in order to keep his job & pay his rent. It happens.

As to Steen... What's this about defending the C*4 title in the states? Details please.
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Moonbase_Alpha
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« Reply #11 on: December 04, 2009, 04:52:45 PM »

True but findiing someone with the ring charisma (promo and work) to promote your fed as champ isn't easy. The more credible they are (kayfabe and not) the better the promotion looks.
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pete
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« Reply #12 on: December 04, 2009, 04:55:48 PM »

Steen would still have to do alot more than that to impress me. No doubt that C*4 is one of the top Indy promotions in Ontario, but it is nowhere near what you can call "mainstream", does C*4 have thier own TV show, or putting out pay-per-view events? No, it is just another Indy promotion. C*4 may be considered mainstream for those that spend alot of time on the internet, as C*4 is considered one of the better Indy promotions in Ontario and is getting attention from far and wide, but mainly on the internet. Like I said, Steen would have to do alot more to impress the hell out of me - his little stint at PWG is nothing compared to what Terry Funk had done for ECW.

C*4 has been listed as one of the top Indy promotions in Ontario - all because of Steen? Not likely.

So, changing the subject a little, what would be wrong with you being considered a Steen mark?  I take absolutely no offence if anyone calls me a Kwan Chang mark - I mark out for the wrestlers I like, regardless of what anyone thinks.

Even Claude Prest and Danny Linkin have their marks - hell - I'm a mark for The Outrider!  Grin
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« Reply #13 on: December 04, 2009, 05:08:48 PM »

I am not really a mark for anyone in particular. I respect what guys can do but  what it all boils down to is, they are human like you or I. I am not someone who is going to clammer for a pic or an autograph. I like certain performers more than others but "MARK OUT" as some put it, for anyone. There is nothing wrong with being a MARK for a talent, it is just , personally, not me

I agree that C*4 is one of the better indys in Ontario, I will also give it to you it is not all because of steen, it is because of Mark. He busts his ass, sometimes at his own expense to provide fans with a great show every time. You can see him before shows pacing around like a  nervous animal. He wants so bad to make the fans come back and to know their money is well spent. How many other promoters see their fans as peers and not dollar signs?? Someone like that who puts their every ounce of effort into a show I have to respect, I doubt any of us could do it, and as a token of respect I also respect his rescission to put Steen as a champion. I think he would know best what a majority of the fans would enjoy. Do you at least agree on that point?? Now basically it comes down to the fact that you hate Kevin Steen, and not without reason, I understand that. You cannot, however, let personal opinions cloud your sense of judgement when it comes to talent. I mean, I hate John Cena with a passion. I think he is worse than Triple H but I do have to respect his drawing power and the fact that he polarizes fans. You either love him or hate him, there is no grey. Kevin Steen has the same effect. You either love him or hate him. He he also has the drawing power that a few of the other guys have but he also has something not many of the local guys do. EXPERIENCE. He has overall experience and international experience as well as championship experience. Any other locals have that??.

I agree with the point that with the right push, anyone in an indy can be champion, that's why I like the indies. I can pay my money, sit back, and leave the decisions to the promoter, and always have fun
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gordo
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« Reply #14 on: December 04, 2009, 05:09:20 PM »

True but findiing someone with the ring charisma (promo and work) to promote your fed as champ isn't easy. The more credible they are (kayfabe and not) the better the promotion looks.

Nothing about promoting indy wrestling is easy.


As to a worker's credibility... That's something that the creative & promotional departments of a fed must establish, whether that worker already has a successful career elsewhere or not.

Remember, 99% of wrestling fans are NOT talking about it on the internet - certainly not on the indy level. The majority of fans don't have a clue what happens anywhere but at the shows they attend. You might be able to bring in a former WWE star (or maybe TNA) and have their exploits in those feds tweak some fans into accepting them as credible stars/threats/champions but someone from ROH? PWG? CZW?... not a fucking chance. You'd be lucky to have half of the local fans even know who those promotions are, let alone the wrestlers who work them.

C*4 has lots of rabid, loyal fans and the numbers keep growing but how many of those fans are participating in this forum or the C*4 Facebook group? Hardly any of them. Why is that? Like I said, most wrestling fans are extremely casual about how deeply they follow the game. I'd bet that for the majority of C*4 fans, the credibility of Kevin Steen extends no further than what he's done in Ottawa for C*4. It was the way he was used in C*4 AND his ability to bring what was needed to the table that made him a credible champion in the eyes of most fans. What he may have done (or continues to do) elsewhere is moot because they just don't know or care about it.
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Moonbase_Alpha
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« Reply #15 on: December 04, 2009, 05:15:53 PM »

Man, I mark out for everyone...kinda sad, huh? Its true, C4 would have a long way to go if it wants to be a full-time product (If that's even possible.)

Most hardcore fans of wrasslin' are internet marks nowadays. Where else would be get our info? Where would C4 find someone willing to devote all their time and energy as a permanent roster member/spokesperson though? I don't know if any wrestler could afford to do that economically these days. Hell, would Mark have the time to comitt to a project like that and realistically, would it even come to fruition?



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« Reply #16 on: December 04, 2009, 05:16:31 PM »

I would have to agree there, this past show, about eighty percent of the people in line never heard of Cheech and Cloudy, some even thought they were the "Incredible" Hunks. It was even worse when Claudio Castgnoli came in, Hardly anyone knew who he was either. I felt like a loser because I knew who he was. Like on of those Star Trek geeks who can quote dialog from every episode.
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gordo
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« Reply #17 on: December 04, 2009, 05:17:03 PM »

I see someone has played the "drawing power" card. lol.

Newsflash: There isn't one single indy wrestler in Ontario or elsewhere who has drawing power significant enough to legitimately raise attendance numbers at an event.

It is "PRO WRESTLING" that is the draw for casual fans. (And it is they who are, or should be the target audience.)

And really, that and a picture of the guy on the show who most LOOKS like a pro wrestler is all you need on a poster.

"Kevin Steen" on a poster ain't gonna draw shit. The Steen marks may go but chances are they're already gonna attend and how many do you think will go JUST because Steen's on the card? 1? 3? 5?... Certainly not enough to even pay his rate.


Successful promoting is a puzzle. Steen's just one piece of C*4's.
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« Reply #18 on: December 04, 2009, 05:20:50 PM »

Do you not think though that a Kevin Steen  is a more powerful draw on a show than a ...I dunno, I don't want to slight anybody...Masked man A??
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gordo
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« Reply #19 on: December 04, 2009, 05:25:04 PM »

Most hardcore fans of wrasslin' are internet marks nowadays.


MOST wrestling fans are neither hardcore nor internet marks.

Wrestling's Hardcore Fans / Internet Marks are the minority.

It's too bad that most indy wrestling PROMOTERS are part of that minority. If they weren't, maybe they'd actually get off their asses and PROMOTE their product to the people that REALLY matter... the causal fans. You know, the people who DON'T follow indy wrestling on the internet.
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